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Creationism in Schools
I’m against creationism being taught in schools because there is empirical evidence it is a silly notion.~ Jim Al-Khalili (1962-09-20 age:55)
Blind Charges At Darwin
Darwinism explains only the least interesting changes and modifications in physical structure: it does not explain the movement of life or its manifest direction towards excellence; and as to origins and as to the final destination of all this vast and orderly movement of life, it is dumb.~ Edward Harold Begbie (1871 1929 age:58)
I find that an odd way to attack Darwin. I doubt Begbie ever read more than a few pages of Darwin, just read about him from fellow Christians. Darwin goes on at length in his books to explain natural selection, the progressive adaptation to environment, the reaction to competition, or as Begbie would term it manifest direction towards excellence. Begbie apparently does not understand that evolution/natural selection is like a blind worm, tormented by brambles (predators, illness) every time it makes a move. It naturally moves to better places, bit by tiny bit, without any planning. You don’t have to be brilliant to make progress, given enough time. Evolution has millions of years to work with. Even with an IQ (Intelligence Quotient) of 1, (the approximate computation power of the process of natural selection) you can still have impressive results. (To clarify, evolution is not about individuals doing anything or changing. It is only about minute changes between generations.)
These people [the Christians] watched the Flintstones as if it were a documentary.~ Lewis Black (1948-08-30 age:69)
Describing creationists who insist dinosaurs and humans wandered the earth together 6,020 years ago.
To Be Consistent
If they [creationist politicians] truly believe that the scientific evidence behind the accepted age of the earth is questionable, then to be consistent they should:
~ David H. Bailey and Jonathan M. Borwein (1948 age:69) source
- Stop using the GPS (Global Positioning System) unit in their automobile because it crucially relies on the constancy of satellite-borne atomic clocks, which constancy is a consequence of quantum mechanics. GPS technology also relies crucially on Einstein’s relativity.
- Toss their smartphone because the engineering behind its components relies crucially on quantum mechanics.
- For that matter, stop using any item with built-in semiconductor devices, since they are all similarly designed based on quantum mechanical principles. Nowadays, this means a vast number of manufactured items, including every new automobile now on the market.
All throughout the fossil record and life, we don’t find one of these; a Crocoduck. There’s just nothing like it!~ Kirk Cameron (1970-10-12 age:47)
A crocoduck is a duck with a crocodile head. Mr. Cameron, the former child actor and Christian evangelist, seems to think the absence of such creatures slam dunk debunks evolution and proves the Christian creationist view. Huh? The dimwit is under the delusion that evolutionary theory predicts you should find intermediate chimeras between any two extant creatures. Clearly he has not read even one book on the subject he makes a living debunking. Perhaps, as a child actor, he early became confused between being a doctor and playing one on TV.
The Fuzzy Criterion
When I think about science it feels cold and heartless. When I think about creationism I feel warm and fuzzy. Therefore, in my opinion, creationism is true.~ A Creationist
When think of brain surgery, I get the shivers. That does not make it false. When I think of My Little Pony, I feel warm and cuddly. That does not mean it exists other than in fiction. When I think of creationism, I feel nauseous because it is a monstrous lie harming all sorts of people. When I think of science, I feel excited. Every day it comes up with something that reduces suffering. Further, every part of it I have studied rings true.
Why Are There Monkeys
If monkeys turned into people, why are there still monkeys?~ A. Creationist
This question comes up over and over. It makes no sense to an evolutionist. Evolutionists tend to treat it as creationists just jerking them around. I will give creationists the benefit of the doubt and assume they have multiple misconceptions caused by exposure to misinformation from creationist websites. First, monkeys did not turn into people. A common ancestor of monkeys and humans had offspring that over millions of years drifted in two directions, toward monkeys and toward humans. No individual creature morphed into anything else, like a werewolf. Offspring were just imperceptibly different from their parents, generation after generation. Think of your own family. You and your brother differ slightly and you each differ slightly from your parents. Each of you could well be the founder of a large tree of descendants. There is no reason both you and your brother’s tree could not thrive. The monkey family and the human family both thrived. Monkeys specialised for tree life. Humans specialised for savannah life. Humans and monkeys thus did not strongly compete with each other so both managed to hang in there even until the present day.
I Did Not Come From No Monkey
But we must not fall into the error of supposing that the early progenitor of the whole Simian stock, including man, was identical with, or even closely resembled any existing ape or monkey.~ Charles Darwin (1809-02-12 1882-04-19 age:73)
Creationists claim Darwin said that monkeys turned into humans. No matter how many times we correct them, they repeat the lie. They know they are wrong, but they compulsively lie anyway.
Why Are there Monkeys?
If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed that could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find no such case.~ Charles Darwin (1809-02-12 1882-04-19 age:73)
This frank admission of where to look for the chink in the armour of evolutionary theory was like blood in the water to the creationist sharks. They searched and searched but found nothing. So they decided to lie about the existence of irreducible complexity instead. They hoped to get some converts at least from the naïve religious camp with sufficient repeated assertion of the lies.
Creationists are Ignorant, Stupid or Insane
It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane.~ Dr. Richard Dawkins (1941-03-26 age:77)
God of the Gaps
Creationists eagerly seek a gap in present-day knowledge or understanding. If an apparent gap is found, it is assumed that God, by default, must fill it. What worries thoughtful theologians such as [Dietrich] Bonhoeffer is that gaps shrink as science advances and God is threatened with eventually having nothing to do and nowhere to hide. What worries scientists is something else. It is an essential part of the scientific enterprise to admit ignorance, even to exult in ignorance as a challenge to future conquests… Mystics exult in mystery and want it to stay mysterious. Scientists exult in mystery for a different reason; it gives them something to do… One of the truly bad effects of religion that it teaches us it is a virtue to be satisfied with not understanding.~ Dr. Richard Dawkins (1941-03-26 age:77), The God Delusion page 125
God of the Gaps
Creationists eagerly seek a gap in present-day knowledge or understanding. If an apparent gap is found, it is assumed that God, by default, must fill it.~ Dr. Richard Dawkins (1941-03-26 age:77)
These temporary and feeble salvos. When science fills in the gap, that argument for God evaporates. Even when Christians argue a god-like being must be invoked, there is no reason whatsoever to think the god had to be Yahweh rather than say, Zeus or any of the thousand of other gods man has or does worship, or even yet another yet undiscovered.
Lack Of Education
I got the impression the only reason they [American creationists] had not seen its [evolution’s] possibilities before, was that the subject had been totally omitted from their education.~ Dr. Richard Dawkins (1941-03-26 age:77), The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design
Age of the Earth
By adding up the lifetimes of various biblical characters, Creationists claim the earth is 6,020 years old. Scientists measure the age of the earth as 4.543 billion years. The creationists have it wrong by a factor of about 1,000,000. This is like claiming the distance from New York to San Francisco is 8.23 metres (9 yards).~ DonExodus2
Perfection of Jesus
On the perfection of Jesus:~ N. Errantiste (1897 1911 age:14)
Yes, Jesus masturbated, but he didn’t come.
I don’t understand evolution, and I’m going to do whatever it takes to stop my kids from understanding it.~ Futurama
Fish Licence Creationists
It reminds me of a Monty Python routine where a guy goes into a pet store to get his fish a licence. He is told they don’t make fish licences. He replies that he has cat licence, why can’t he get a fish licence? but is told they don’t make cat licences either. So he shows the pet store owner his cat licence. That’s not a cat licence the owner responds, That’s a dog licence. You just scratched out the word dog and wrote in cat. That’s all the creationists are doing. They’ve just scratched out religion and in its place put in science.~ Murray Gell-Mann (1929-09-15 age:88), quantum physicist, winner of the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1969
Creationism is Bogus
Creation science has not entered the curriculum for a reason so simple and so basic that we often forget to mention it: because it is false and because good teachers understand exactly why it is false. What could be more destructive of that most fragile yet most precious commodity in our entire intellectual heritage — good teaching — than a bill forcing honorable teachers to sully their sacred trust by granting equal treatment to a doctrine not only known to be false, but calculated to undermine any general understanding of science as an enterprise?~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (1941-09-10 2002-05-20 age:60)
Evolution Can Be Tested
Creationist critics often charge that evolution cannot be tested and therefore cannot be viewed as a properly scientific subject at all. This claim is rhetorical nonsense.~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (1941-09-10 2002-05-20 age:60)
They[creationists] have this absurd notion that something that occurs in the past and that is not subject to direct observation is not provable. That’s nonsense… There is a mystery as to how evolution occurs, but there is not a whole lot of doubt as to whether it occurs.~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (1941-09-10 2002-05-20 age:60).
Pseudoscience known by its supporters as scientific creationism is strict Genesis literalism masquerading as science in a cynical attempt to bypass the First Amendment and win legislatively mandated inclusion of particular (and minority) religious views into public school curricula… Intense debates about how evolution occurs display science at its most exciting, but provide no solace (only phony ammunition by wilful distortion) to strict fundamentalists.~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (1941-09-10 2002-05-20 age:60)
Creationist critics often charge that evolution cannot be tested and therefore cannot be viewed as a properly scientific subject at all. This claim is rhetorical nonsense.~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (1941-09-10 2002-05-20 age:60)
On the contrary, it is the creationists with an untestable hypothesis. Creationism makes no predictions. There is no telling what a god will do.
This means that any aliens would also be affected by Adam’s sin, but because they are not Adam’s descendants, they can’t have salvation.~ Ken Ham (1951-10-20 age:66)
What’s the bible verse where you learned this, Ken?
No one is going to convince me that the word of god is not true.~ Ken Ham (1951-10-20 age:66)
But that is not the question. The question is, did Yahweh write the bible? Since there is no god, the only source for the bible is fellow fallible humans. Of course, those authors could err, and nearly always do. Read the bible, cover to cover. On matters of science the bible is always wrong. Dove blood does not cure leprosy. The earth is not flat. There is no celestial ocean. π is not 3. All those biblical claims are wrong, however, there is no reason to believe they are god’s word. The very fact they are so hopelessly wrong is strong evidence they could not possibly be god’s word. The only reason anyone believes that Yahweh wrote the bible is tradition. There is not one iota of evidence for it.
Who Should You Trust
Who should you trust first, god or the scientists?~ Ken Ham (1951-10-20 age:66)
If there were a creator deity and if there were a way of asking him questions, obviously he would be the expert, unless he were suffering from some sort of supernatural Alzheimer’s. But that is not who Ken Ham’s followers are asking. They are asking an old book, penned by anonymous people 3000 years ago. A book is not the same thing as god, even though it is purported to have been penned by god. There is ample evidence the bible is a forgery. So if Ken Ham were honest, he would have asked Who should you trust, bronze age desert dwellers or modern scientists? or even more accurately Who should you trust, me or modern scientists?
In general, someone with his hand is your pocket is less trustworthy than somebody who is not trying to charm you out of your money.
Lying is a skill you should home in on and learn how to do it.~ Eric Hovind (1978-06-05 age:39) Creationist
You think you’re so smart, Mr. Atheist. Explain calculus in three sentences that a math-illiterate person like me could understand. I bet you can’t. That proves calculus is the work of the devil and Jesus is our lord.~ Jael
This is yet another argument from ignorance.
My Refusal to Study Physics Proves God
You think you’re so smart, Mr. Atheist. Explain time dilation and relativity in three sentences that a science-illiterate person like me could understand. I bet you can’t. That proves evolution is a crock and Jesus is our lord.~ Jael
My Stupidity Proves Creationism
You think you’re so smart, Mr. Atheist. Explain speciation in evolution in three sentences that a science-illiterate person like me could understand. I bet you can’t. That proves evolution is a crock and Jesus is our lord.~ Jael
The Purpose Of Earwax and God
You think you’re so smart, Mr. Atheist. What is ear wax for? I bet you don’t know. That proves evolution is a crock and Jesus is our lord.~ Jael
Limits On The Universe
The universe couldn’t have come into existence by it self… that’s crazy… what are the chance of a little energy coming out of nothing?~ John Johnson
You have a brain the size of a cantaloupe. How is that brain supposed to know for certain what the entire universe may or may not do, especially when that brain has carefully avoided learning anything about how the cosmos does behave?
But Quantum Mechanics shows particles pop into and out of existence all the time and the universe was smaller than an atom at the big bang. So no big deal. Your computer could not work if that were not so.
What I find really odd, is in your view, if you add a wizard and a magic wand, then the universe has no problem popping into existence. The wizard explains nothing. It just adds the puzzles where did the wizard come from? Who made the wizard’s gown? Where did the wand come from? How does waving a wand create universes? How does the wand know what the wizard wants to create? Does it have an ESP (Extra Sensory Perception) interface? Where is the wizard before he creates space? What was he doing before he got into the creation business? What is he doing now the creation is over and he has become undetectable? How did he create himself? You have not explained anything. You have just exploded the complexity of the problem.
How Creationists Cheat
Our strategy has been to change the subject, a bit so that we can get the issue of Intelligent Design, which really means the reality of God, before the academic world and into the schools.~ Phillip E. Johnson (1940-06-18 age:77), father of Intelligent Design, Discovery Institute.
Creation of Life
To recreate the conditions thought to exist on Earth when life began, scientists used a giant laser to ignite chemical reactions that converted a substance found on the early Earth into the molecular building blocks of DNA (Deoxyribonucleic Acid), the blueprint for life.~ Tanya Lewis source
Creationists claim that the spontaneous creation of DNA is impossible. It looks like that probably is not so. After all, we having been doing it every day in the lab for years. Regroup creationists! Hint: claim that it is a miracle that the building blocks of DNA spontaneously form. Claim, as usual without evidence, that Yahweh, the master chemist of the bible, so designed chemistry that this could happen automatically in the natural course of things, like an aquarist setting up an automated fish feeder so that his direct action is no longer required.
Evolution never permits one thing to turn into another, fundamentally different sort of thing. All evolution is just a matter of incremental, superficial changes being slowly compiled atop various tiers of fundamental changes. Thus every new species, genus or higher taxa that ever evolved was just a modified version of whatever its ancestors were.
And those successive levels of similarity represent taxonomic clades which will forever encompass all the descendants of that clade to matter how different they eventually become.~ Ernst Walter Mayr (1904-07-05 2005-02-03 age:100)
Law of Monophyletic Variation
Why then does every creationist publicly proclaim the very opposite, that evolution is all about the creation of bizarre chimeras like crocoducks and spontaneous generation of new radically different lifeforms out of nothing? That is a straw man argument, otherwise known as lying about your opponent’s position to more easily ridicule it. The lie is an admission creationists have no truthful arguments against evolution. Even they know they have to lie to support creationism. Even they know creationism is false. They support it for ulterior motives, usually financial. The humour of it is the creationists are the ones who assert new species appeared out of nothing by magic. They are trying to tar evolutionists with their own absurd beliefs.
Creationist Polar Bears
If polar bears are [the] dominant [predator] in the Arctic, then there would seem to have been no need for them to evolve a white-coloured form of camouflage.~ Hugh William Montifiore (1920-05-12 2005-05-13 age:85) Bishop of Birmingham, in Probability of God.
This an outrageously idiotic argument from ignorance, one of the classical logical fallacies. Just because the bishop is too clueless to come up with an explanation, he asserts that Darwinian theory could not possibly come up with an explanation. It therefore must be the God Yahweh’s whim. Had he any intellectual integrity, he would have asked a professional zoologist for a Darwinian explanation before using this example in his book. The answer why polar bears need camouflage is obvious to anyone who has ever watched polar bears sneak up on seals even from an armchair watching nature documentaries.
Ignoring The Evidence
When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data.~ Henry Morris (1918-10-06 2006-02-25 age:87) Institute for Creation Research
To me it is obviously the reverse. Scientists present many reasons why they believe what they do. Creationists do not. It is not just science that conflicts, it is observable reality.
It is impossible to defend creationism without lying.~ Aron Ra (pronounced R.N. Raw) (née L. Aron Nelson) (1962-10-15 age:55)
Who Knows What?
Science does not know everything. Religion knows nothing.~ Aron Ra (pronounced R.N. Raw) (née L. Aron Nelson) (1962-10-15 age:55)
Creationism is as Silly as an Earth-Centred Universe
Society would not tolerate legislation declaring that the theory that the sun circles the earth be given equal time with the theory of a heliocentric solar system; it should not pay attention to the equally preposterous notions of scientific creationism~ Robert Ornstein
Leonardo Was Not A Creationist
During a trip to an Apennine mountaintop, [Leonardo da Vinci] had discovered the fossilised remains of shellfish that ordinarily lived on the ocean floor. How did this come about? The conventional theological wisdom was that the Great Flood of Noah had inundated the mountaintops and carried the clams and oysters with it. Leonardo, remembering that the Bible says that the flood lasted only forty days, attempted to calculate whether this would be sufficient time to carry the shellfish with them, even if the mountaintops were inundated. During what state in the life cycle of the shellfish had they been deposited? — and so on. He came to the conclusion this didn’t work and proposed a quite daring alternative; namely, that over immense vistas of geological time the mountaintops had pushed up through the oceans. And that posed all sorts of theological difficulties. But it is the correct answer, as I think it’s fair to say it has been definitively established in our time.~ Carl Sagan (1934-11-09 1996-12-20 age:62) The God Hypothesis
The creationist explanation also fails to account for the various layers of shellfish, each with their own unique species.
Christianity is About Making Money
Evangelical Christians are not sincere. It is all about making money.~ Frank Schaeffer (1952-08-03 age:65) author of Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back
I think what he meant is there are two kinds of evangelical Christians: the con artists who run the show and the gullible, naïve flock who seriously believe the nonsense they are told. The people selling creationism don’t believe it themselves. You can tell by all the outrageously dishonest ploys they use.
Definition of Evolution
Biological evolution is defined as the descent of living things from ancestors from which they differ. Evolution kicks in after there is something, like a replicating structure, to evolve. So the origin of life preceded evolution and is conceptually distinct from it.~ Dr. Eugenie Carol Scott (1945-10-24 age:72) Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction, Second Edition
Creationists make no distinction and like to falsely claim that because science has not definitively cracked the origin of life problem, there must be something deficient in the theory of evolution.
Little Has Changed
The biological world of five thousand years ago was virtually identical to ours today.~ Dr. Eugenie Carol Scott (1945-10-24 age:72) Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction, Second Edition
Yet willfully ignorant creationists claim that for evolution to exist it must proceed faster than the hands of a clock, with creatures morphing before your eyes, like Disney’s Shaggy Dog or Star Trek’s salt monster.
Something Out Of Nothing
Asking why there is something rather than nothing presumes nothing is the natural state of things out of which something needs an explanation. Maybe something is the natural state of things, and nothing would be the mystery to be solved.~ Michael Shermer (1954-09-08 age:63)
In the United States, the new creationist movement has convinced many people and their political servants that scientists are being unfair in not supporting the teaching of alternatives to evolution in science classes. They say it is censorship to exclude intelligent design from those classes. The usual argument raised against teaching intelligent design is that it unconstitutionally promotes religion. Design promoters, however, insist that they have no particular designer in mind. No one believes them, but skilled lawyers arguing for the cause of impartiality on their behalf could probably prevail in court. In any case, a better argument exists: Intelligent design theory, as currently formulated by its leading proponents, should not be taught in science classes because it is provably wrong.~ Victor J. Stenger (1935-01-29 2014-08-27 age:79)
Deny Creationists Their Lies
When people start using science to argue for their specific beliefs and delusions, to try to claim that they’re supported by science, then scientists at least have to speak up and say, You re welcome to your delusions, but don’t say that they’re supported by science.~ Victor J. Stenger (1935-01-29 2014-08-27 age:79)
Economy of Thought
The argument from design rests on the notion that everything, but God, must come from something. However, once you agree that it is logically possible for an entity to exist that was not itself created, namely God, then that entity can just as well be the universe itself. Indeed, this is a more economical possibility, not requiring the additional hypothesis of a supernatural power outside the universe… To [creationists], it is not a matter of logic anyway, but common sense. They see no way that the universe could have just happened, without intent. How can something come from nothing? they continue to ask, never wondering how God came from nothing.~ Victor J. Stenger (1935-01-29 2014-08-27 age:79)
Something From Nothing
Something can’t come from nothing~ David VanderHoff
But that is not true. I have explained to you over and over that Quantum Mechanics has known for a century that particles pop into and out of existence without cause all the time. You pretend not to hear. Further, the universe at the time of the big bang was less than the size of an atom. I know it violates your intuition. Don’t feel bad. It boggled Einstein too.
But let’s assume you found some valid variant of this argument. Let’s assume you demonstrated that something must have preexisted the universe and it created the universe. However, that does not tell you a damn thing about it. It might be a mortal advanced being living in another multiverse. It might be Ganesh. It might be some creative force field. It need have nothing at all in common with Yahweh. You have no idea where it came from, or any of its attributes, other than it is capable (perhaps working as a team) of creating universes. You have no evidence at all the creation occurred in a way remotely like that described in Genesis. You have no idea how it created the universe. You have no idea of its personality or why it created the universe.
William Lane Craig at that point does a magician sleight of mouth and tries to pretend the only conceivable creator would be Yahweh/Jesus and that he has just proved Jesus was born of a virgin and died for your sins. The dishonesty makes me heave. I feel unclean to be living on the same planet with that slimebag.
Chance or God?
Did all this happen by chance or by intelligent design? [referring to a complex plant, the Dutchman’s pipe]~ The Watchtower A JW (Jehovah’s Witness) creationist publication.
Neither. It happened by natural selection which is anything but random and does not consciously design or use a designer. You would think by now the J.W. administration would have read at least one book on what evolutionary theory claims so they could attempt to more convincingly refute it. They seem content with straw man arguments unchanged since the 1800s. What they are doing is fraud — deliberately misstating evolutionary theory.
A Creationist Lie
living cells — which Darwin thought were mere blobs of protoplasm — actually consist of countless molecular machines that have the hallmarks of design.~ Jonathan Wells (1942 age:75) The Politically Incorrect Guide To Darwinism and Intelligent Design
This is one of the most common creationist lies. Darwin himself included diagrams of the complex internal structure of cells in his books.
Early Opposition to Evolution
The principle of natural selection is absolutely incompatible with the word of God. [It] contradicts the revealed relations of creation to its Creator.~ Bishop Samuel Wilberforce (1805-09-07 1873-07-19 age:67)
Since evolution is a demonstrable fact, if the Bishop is correct, then the revealed relations of creation must be false.
Creation ⇒ God?
God exists and He can be seen to exist by what has been created.~ Willpower242 of YouTube
That is a conclusion of someone who knows nothing about science, relying purely on intuition. Every time science tackles a problem once thought the purview of god, e.g. lightning, disease or weather, science discovers it is controlled by natural laws. There is absolutely no sign of a deity tweaking the workings of the universe, never, not once. We even understand the big bang back to 1 billionth of a second after the start. We have created life in the laboratory by artificially creating DNA sequences. We don’t know everything, but everything so far has been natural causes. So the creation is not necessarily evidence for a god. It is much more likely to be natural causes too. Attributing the supernatural is a childish way of saying I don’t know.
Second the bible’s account of creation is ridiculous on 1000+ particulars. If a god created the universe, it was not the god of the bible. Some creationists have resorted to claiming god faked many things to make it look like the universe were 13 billion years old and evolution were true. Would it not be more plausible that they actually are true?
The other argument Christians use is the bible. They claim it is inerrant and so perfect it had to have been authored by a supernatural being. This a preposterous claim. Whoever wrote the bible knew only what desert dwellers 3000 years ago knew. The creator of the universe would know far more than we do about how universes work. The authors of the bible thought π was 3, the earth was flat, rabbits chew their cud, the best way to cure leprosy was animal sacrifice and dove blood. Further the thousands of errors and inconsistencies point to incompetent human authors not a superhuman author. It is insulting to Yahweh to assert that sloppy piece of work is his doing.
Without a supernatural bible, its entire authority collapses, including its cock-eyed creation myths and, of course, creationism and its barbaric morality.
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